#26

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:02 am
by P J | 72 Posts | 488 Points

Quote: shortbus wrote in post #17
for someone who grows organic, would you say the transition is easier, b/c feeding isn't a factor? or is that just a small portion of a wide array of things that you have to change if you switch to led?

Wanted to answer this one, and I did stare at it for a while, but honestly don't understand the question? The way I am reading it, not sure why organic would be any different then hydro, soiless, or any other way to grow.

Not sure how feeding isn't a factor? I can say that if your organic mix is hot, and your plants are on the edge of burning in it's mix with HID's they will surly fry with good LED's.

Light is food, and LED's put a lot more "Useable" light per watt and will fry a plant in 8 hrs if your mix is too hot.

Done it, not pretty.


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#27

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:14 pm
by Major Stoned | 14 Posts | 37 Points

Quote: P J wrote in post #24
Prices vary as you have will have a quite large shipping fee, so I tell everyone if you are planning to get one now and one later wait till you have enough for both. Not sure they will sell direct anymore without a minimum, but they seem to change their rules all the time on that.

If any of you have any issues with ordering LMK. I don't work and am not affiliated with them in any way, but I have been working with their tech's on improvements a couple of years.

Who do you recommend for shipping? 1pce. unit. DHL, Fed-Ex, or UPS. I am close to going with them. Unless you know of any other company's to go with. Can you PM me?
Thanks P J.

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#28

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:30 pm
by Weedhopper | 1.200 Posts | 3987 Points

Glad you guys got the help you were looking for. LEDS,,,,,,,Just Playen Guys,,just playen. Couldnt help but jack with PJ a little bit.
Im watching and learning.


We are a form of Energy and Energy never dies,,IT JUST CHANGES FORMS. Im gonna be Dirt,,your gonna be POO. LOL
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#29

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:37 pm
by Major Stoned | 14 Posts | 37 Points
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#30

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:14 pm
by P J | 72 Posts | 488 Points

They use DHL White glove service and as far as I know that is the only option. As you have said they have been closed for the holidays and I have not talked to my girl for a couple of weeks.

I do have to say if you are planning to only get one unit you may have a problem. Last I heard they have a minimum now.

May be better of going with an Ebay shipper who sells the Blackstar Chrome series. Same light...

ERR Edit:

I have used other companies in the past, and have 4 other brands I use in different stages. I've not used anything that comes close in flowering. That said, I haven't paid more than about a dollar a watt, and don't feel anyone should have to...

You can pay more if ya like.
:)


Last edited Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:17 pm | Scroll up

#31

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:27 pm
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

PJ, what do you think about the Black Dog LED?

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#32

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:46 pm
by P J | 72 Posts | 488 Points

Quote: MR1 wrote in post #31
PJ, what do you think about the Black Dog LED?


To quote SisterMaryElephant: =Who is a mod over at the LED Grow light forum . com

We've had a couple of people ask about BD lights and, based on my research, I'm not a big fan. The lights themselves might be fine but they have a lot of misleading/bad information on their website which raises red-flags for me. If their lights are so good, then why bull people?

Personally I can't speak on them as I have no personal experience with their products, but I do agree their advertising practices leave a bit to be desired.

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#33

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:06 am
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

Thanks PJ. I am only asking because LG Led Solutions has what looks to be the same light for a lot cheaper than Black dog.

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#34

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:19 am
by P J | 72 Posts | 488 Points

All public info with some time on your hands, but there are a whole lot of people/companies/branders making money being the middle man in the LED business right now. I find going straight to the source is key, and keeping it real, there aren't many. At least not worth a darn.


Last edited Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:03 am | Scroll up

#35

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:28 am
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

Thanks again PJ, $ 346 plus $ 66 shipping for the 700w Mars 2. Good price?

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#36

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:30 am
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points
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#37

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:33 am
by P J | 72 Posts | 488 Points

Quote: MR1 wrote in post #35
Thanks again PJ, $ 346 plus $ 66 shipping for the 700w Mars 2. Good price?


700watt for 346? There is something seriously wrong with that. Real LED power at some of the lowest prices around are about a buck a watt, and that is cheap.

LED's are not cheap, and cheap LED's are not good. Got a link?

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#38

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:35 am
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

Yup right above.

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#39

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:36 am
by P J | 72 Posts | 488 Points

Garbage, don't waste your money.

This is what real 700watts looks like:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2013-720w-FSF-Lig...=item43b18c6a25

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#40

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:39 am
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

OK man I will trust your judgment. I thought being LG might make them decent quality.

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#41

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:43 am
by P J | 72 Posts | 488 Points

And that is what they are banking on. The LED business has been pretty shady in the past. You just have to weed through the BS.

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#42

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:26 am
by sin inc | 101 Posts | 934 Points

its all in what your looking to do. plane and simple leds do grow plants . if your looking to give your room a boost in lumens along with your main light . you could get 3 or 4 mid grade led panels or ufo's and place them along the walls are under the plants growth level.this should give some boost in veg and in flower to. but if your looking to go pure led then you really cant afford to be cheap at point because if your going to spend 700 smacks on leds then you might as well get as much quality as you can. eazy way.. all you have to do is look for done led journals and pick the best leds that has the best results that you like and get them. why you ask?
1. you know they work you just saw it with your own eyes
2. ...............?

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#43

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:36 am
by shortbus | 253 Posts | 1304 Points

Quote: P J wrote in post #26

Wanted to answer this one, and I did stare at it for a while, but honestly don't understand the question? The way I am reading it, not sure why organic would be any different then hydro, soiless, or any other way to grow.

Not sure how feeding isn't a factor? I can say that if your organic mix is hot, and your plants are on the edge of burning in it's mix with HID's they will surly fry with good LED's.

Light is food, and LED's put a lot more "Useable" light per watt and will fry a plant in 8 hrs if your mix is too hot.

Done it, not pretty.



i got my answer. more usable light, so you don't have to feed as much.

i guess technically my question was, "how is feeding different under led?"

...how come a hot mix will fry a pant under LED? but not under HID or the sun? LED has more usable light then the sun?


greenmojo

Last edited Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:37 am | Scroll up

#44

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:16 am
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

I e-mailed LG and this is what they said.

Zitat



































Hello MR1 where did they say our light not good because the cheap price? Can you show me the link?You know we are the biggest led grow light factory from Shenzhen,China we have warehouse in USA, UK, Australia. We are directly reail that’s why our price much cheaper than reseller also we have big sales. So we did the sea ship our cost cheaper than other small seller by DHL/FEDEX from china. I know resller,s price 200% or 300% higher than ours . but the quality same as ours there also have some twice expensive than ours but the quality lower. We are in the market over 5years befor we only do OEM for them since last year we do the retail some of the expensive brand also made by our company the quality same but them price 3times higher.

I know there also have people do not trust china seller, but all the led grow light made in china. Even from local seller.

I also have read a thread at Grasscity about these lights and people are very happy with them. I was thinking about using one in my shed this summer to keep the heat down. Only a couple of plants. I could not justify spending over $1000 for a grow light but these Mars 2 lights I would give it a shot.

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#45

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:14 am
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

Some more info, they use epistar led's. This chart is provided by The Lighting Solutions.

Zitat

The BIGGEST question: I see names such as CREE, Epistar, Ecosmart...which should I buy?

Good question and you certainly should be concerned with. The names you mentioned such as CREE, Epistar etc are the type of Chip / Driver that is used inside the LED bulb. The difference is simple…quality! They are ALL manufactured overseas (CREE, Epistar, Ecosmart etc). CREE is based in the USA, designed in the USA and set the standards for the HIGHEST Quality LED! CREE is by far the leading innovator of lighting-class LED’s…period! This is why their prices are much higher then other brands, but they do last much longer. We offer CREE at BELOW market prices. We also offer the second best which is Epistar, also at BELOW market prices.

Below is a good way to help you decide based on public feedback:

CREE: 50,000 to 100,000 hour Life Expectancy – Highest Standards
Epistar: 50,000 to 75,000 hour Life Expectancy – High Standards
Nichia: 50,000 to 75,000 hour Life Expectancy – High Standards
Bridgelux: 30,000 to 40,000 hour Life Expectancy – Medium Standards
Edison: 30,000 to 40,000 hour Life Expectancy – Medium Standards
Ecosmart: 10,000 to 25,000 hour Life Expectancy – Low Standards
Generic: 250 to 5,000 hour Life Expectancy – Lowest Standards




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#46

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:26 pm
by Major Stoned | 14 Posts | 37 Points

Before ordering, How would I know if I'm getting the quality Apollo LED's I'm looking for, or on of the knock offs floating around?

And looks like I'm getting some good price quotes.

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#47

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:05 pm
by P J | 72 Posts | 488 Points

Personally I have to see an Apollo knockoff. Apollo's are sold direct from Cidly. The others floating around are middle man involved and anywhere from 30 to 100% higher.

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#48

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:17 am
by Major Stoned | 14 Posts | 37 Points

But I have a better price quote's than Cidly's, and Fed-Ex shipped. I my have to look into that company more. I do know they are a Trading Company established in 2000, and Onsite checked. Taiwan EPI chip.
Maybe Cidly can do better with prices, I hope so, I would rather buy directly from the manufacturer.

On a different subject, having your wisdom tooth pulled sucks. Hydocodone's cool though. 3 more wisdom's to go.

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#49

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:53 am
by P J | 72 Posts | 488 Points

Quote: shortbus wrote in post #43


i got my answer. more usable light, so you don't have to feed as much.

i guess technically my question was, "how is feeding different under led?"

...how come a hot mix will fry a pant under LED? but not under HID or the sun? LED has more usable light then the sun?


So there is no confusion I did not state that your plants would not burn under the SUN, just HID lighting VS LED's.

Out doors under the sun plants eat far less "food". One would never use the same amount of food indoors compared to outdoors all other things the same. The reason for this is the plants outdoors have everything they need light wise which feeds the plant.

Indoors we try and replicate outdoor conditions the best we can. Unfortunately HID lighting as intense as it is is limited due to the spectrum light companies are able to produce.

This following example is based on Spectrum values only:

If you were to take a 1000watt HPS bulb and it had a value of 100% of what Plant A needed, It would take 250watts of LED power to produce the same level of useable light to the plant.

Unfortunately as we all know while LED's are far superior in terms of dialing in a color spectrum, they just aren't that bright only producing the proper color pallet. Would have been so awesome to cut a lighting bill by 75%, but most can take the 50% cut and do just fine.

In order to grow your favorite plant, intensity [wattage] needs to be increased for penetration to reach the bottom of the plant which HID's do quite well because they are bright, so what you "see right now" is people growing with half the wattage with LED's.

The first thing I noticed when making the switch, and I used HID lighting, and CFL's for 30 years, is my plants started burning as if they were over fed. I was trying to use the same level of food as I did with HID's. After about 3 months of fighting what I thought was a bad spectrum design on my part, I met with General Hydroponics and spoke to their rep up in Detroit at the Maximum Yield grow show in 2012. First thing they asked me is how much did I adjust my food when making the switch, which at the time the answer was I was feeding the same. He winked and said cut your food by 1/3rd and see how that works. I have been golden since.

Just to confuse things a bit further, I am stating this finding based on "Watt for Watt." If you took 1000watts of HID and put one plant under it and you were running it at peak food. If you took that same plant and put it under 1000watts of LED it will burn. The same is also true if you took a plant that was at a certain food strength for a healthy LED grown plant, and tried to use that same food strength that the plant would starve and eventually die. The difference is quite significant watt to watt.

That's the long if it, the short is exactly what you said in the first sentence "more usable light, so you don't have to feed as much"

Hope that makes sense.

PJ


Last edited Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:53 am | Scroll up

#50

RE: LED's wavelength/bulb color ratio?

in Lighting Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:12 am
by P J | 72 Posts | 488 Points

Quote: Major Stoned wrote in post #48
But I have a better price quote's than Cidly's, and Fed-Ex shipped. I my have to look into that company more. I do know they are a Trading Company established in 2000, and Onsite checked. Taiwan EPI chip.
Maybe Cidly can do better with prices, I hope so, I would rather buy directly from the manufacturer.

On a different subject, having your wisdom tooth pulled sucks. Hydocodone's cool though. 3 more wisdom's to go.



Shoot me a PM and we can chat about your numbers and I will see if you are in range. I've got about 30 to 40 quotes now for myself and others so I should be able to see if your close. Thanks Ozzy for pointing me to the PM area. Had PM's for days and had no idea. DOH

Like I stated earlier though, if you are planning to get one light then your gonna be hosed on price due to shipping alone and you may be better off ordering a Chrome from Blackstar on Ebay. [No one is going to admit they are the same light. I have spoken to the president of their company on several occasions, and he ain't talking.;)] The amount of lights also plays a huge role. Had I ordered 2 more Apollo 10's, I could have saved an additional 50 bucks a light. Didn't know that until a buddy of mine wanted 2 more than I had and got a quote for him. ERRrr

My only concern with the Chrome's would be which generation module are they using? I am currently using generation 3's which are what you get from Cidly right now. There could be some 2's or even 1's floating around out there, and there are heating issues with some of those due to the original design.

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