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#26

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:21 am
by Cubby | 1.243 Posts | 4716 Points

I would think your grow space is large enough for 1 plant, you're gonna' need enough space around it for air movement.

As to "wich would you choose?", I wouldn't choose any, yet, though I like the form of the middle one right now, that can easily change.

And your computer thingy looks like a baby nuclear reactor...

If you want to try some cloning now, I would suggest you take the plant you like least, and try some cloning on it. Even if the clones die you'll still have the donor plant.

Best of luck...


MarP Class of 2007

BHC #6 7/8
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#27

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:47 am
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

exactly the size I was shooting for when I designed the cabinet
-----

these are just over 3 weeks past sprout. I think I'll give them another 2 weeks before I start performing any surgery on them.

The plan is to TOP the best two, FIM the 3rd best, and then try to clone the 4th and 5th.
(covers the bases from a learning the basic techniques POV)

assuming I get a few clones to survive on the first tries, I'll hurry and get clones of #1-3 going, since those are the ones I hope to flower.
I may run out of space and have to kill-off #5 or setup the flower side in a VEG cycle.


there's more but I think a month's worth of plan is enough in this post.


(yes, yes there will be a pic and a question soon...)


please take a look @ this picture and tell me if that looks like a good nutrient solution to use



starting with the "Aggressive Veg Groth" mix of the 3-part + the additives that came in the GH FloraSeries " Performance Pack"


.


Your Experience is like Water
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Last edited Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:55 am | Scroll up

#28

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:30 am
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

cut that mix down to 75% strength and swapped out the single "large" dishpan for two small dishpanS

uses nearly 100% of the square inches (20x26) barley worth talking in feet (3.6 FT2)
might be asking just a little too much from this T5 fixture

also

my nutrient was down to 61 F
i'm going to give these black tubs a try and see how much I can effect the temps
wouldn't be too bad if I could get mid upper 60's with 66 room temp
I can swap back to white for the summer



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#29

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:11 am
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

Friend, if your res temp is below room temp you might have your air pump in a place where it is drawing in cold air which gets pumped through the hose, into the water cooling down your res temp. If you put your air pump where it is drawing in warm air you could theoretically raise your temp that way. I would stick with the black tubs but I don't think it will affect your res temp but you never know till you try. Plants look good though


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#30

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:32 am
by The Hemp Goddess | 281 Posts | 1083 Points

What is your ultimate plan with these? What do you plan on doing with the rockwool cubes that you just have sitting in bubbling water now?

I think that the Rubbermaid tote is crowding your plants too much. I think that and the fact that there is standing water in the tote all the time that is not shielded from the plants probably was a big contributing factor to your PM. IMO, you need to get these babies in their own containers, you need to get the nute solution out of the light, and get them spread out some. Them being all squished together is that Rubbermaid thing is probably not helping their growth in any way. Just because the new leaves are coming in nice and green does not mean that the PM is gone--it develops on the new healthy looking leaves, so stay diligent. Overcrowding, too moist conditions, and lack of air movement cause PM.....and it looks like all the same conditions exist that caused the first bout of PM.

I personally have never understood the practicing with bagseed thing. Good genetics are not that expensive and you know what you are getting. In this day and age with most bud being sensimillian, bagseed is most likely the result of a female selfing....in other words a hermie. It takes about 4 months to go from seed to cured bud, so I have never understood taking a chance with unknown bagseed when you can get single seeds for a few bucks or a bag of 10 for $50 or so.

Also, I don't really understand your ventilation system. Could you explain how it is set up?


Well Behaved Women Rarely Make History--Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

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#31

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:17 pm
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

think of this entire grow as nothing more than a learning / test experiment. these are the first beans I have EVER cracked. I thought it would be best to learn on free "worthless" beans/genetics rather than be stressed-out over killing something that has a lot of potential that I just couldn't live up to.


the ultimate plan is to use top-notch beans and either have 1 mother and 1-2 clones or just 1-3 seedlings (from FEM beans) on this side and then 1 flowering over on the other side.
I never planed on having 5 over here in VEG, I just figured (during this experiment) I'd keep them around until I screw one or two up (while I learn to top, FIM and clone) and they die.

once "the ONE" gets selected, the rockwool cube will be transferred into an 8" or 10" net-pot with clay beads in a 3.5 gallon bucket, DWC style.
I'm not sure what I will do/use if I end up trying to keep a mother over on this side...


I honestly do not think there was ever a PM problem. what we all saw were the "salts" left behind as splashed nutrient solution evaporated away.
If I had PM, simply wiping the leaves off with a wet paper towel would not have "solved" the situation; which is all I have done and I see NO further dust/powder.
I totally understand and appreciate your concern and accept that only time will show us what was/is happening.


the mechanics of this cabinet (fans, scrubber and air pump) are crammed down under the table in the VEG side tighter than a twin turbo Corvette engine bay (translation for non car people:) crammed in here tighter than Joan Rivers forehead skin, and I have little to no ability to rearrange any of it.

I have two bathroom vent (squirrel cage) fans, 75 CFM each, (parallel... don't ask lol) using 4" duct, pulling through a 4x20" carbon scrubber and blowing out the back of the cabinet.
yes, having the scrubber drawing from the bottom is not optimal from a heat POV but its how it worked out and I have attempted to manipulate the air pattern/flow on this side with twin (in series) 80 CFM 4" duct booster fans drawing hot air from the top of the VEG side down to the bottom (scrubber).

the inlet is over on the flower side and is a 6" duct attached to a cylindrical (car) air filter (eventually to be replace with a HEPA filter) down at the bottom. There are three 3" duct tubes cut through the middle dividing wall; 2 up @ the top for heat and 1 near the bottom to supply the VEG side with "fresh cool" air. The negative air pressure on the veg side draws air through/from the flower side.

Once the 200W LED and 200W CFL fixtures get turned on in the flower side, the whole cabinet will get 8-12F warmer. I ran MANY 2+ hour tests with different ducting/fan configurations with remote thermometers monitoring each side separately and think (hope) I have a decent temp/air flow now. some of the setups went into thermal runaway and temps were into the high 80's before I gave up on that configuration and tried something different.
these tests were done with NO circulating fans, only the scrubber fans and the thermometer probes in direct lamp light, so temps should be even better once everything is in place.



I hope this explains my setup and plans enough (if not feel free to ask more) and please understand I'm ALWAYS open to suggestion. (although please also understand I have probabaly put some thought into the subject already and will have a bit of resistance accepting my conclusion, might be, wrong.) :P


.


Your Experience is like Water
I am like Rockwool

Last edited Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:48 pm | Scroll up

#32

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:55 pm
by Cubby | 1.243 Posts | 4716 Points

Go to a pet store and buy a aquairium heater, it's like $30. If I don't use a aquairium heater my res drops to 53*. I learned the hard way. It's one of those little things.


MarP Class of 2007

BHC #6 7/8
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#33

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:59 pm
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

what temps do you shoot for?

I understand everybody's setup is different, just trying to zero in on an average.

edit:
well lookie there a thread on temps in the beginner section

you shoot for 73*


Your Experience is like Water
I am like Rockwool

Last edited Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:27 pm | Scroll up

#34

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:25 am
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

Quote: Justa420Friend wrote in post #27

these are just over 3 weeks past sprout. I think I'll give them another 2 weeks before I start performing any surgery on them.

not












(#1A+ stem; thick / overall / " PM" leaf / 4.5")


digital date
12/18/13 (3.5w)






also topped:




("center", poor transition; only reload, tall 5.25")




Black tub Nutrient:

62F = 1.5h / ?? box / 66 room
66F = 7h / 76 box / 67 room
-
??F = 18h
cool
??F = 0 (=~ 1.5?)


Your Experience is like Water
I am like Rockwool

Last edited Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:34 am | Scroll up

#35

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:32 pm
by surfinc | 1.748 Posts | 6388 Points

im not sure i understand the bag seed idea...seems like you havent killed anything... best to order some seeds from a bank so when all this work is done its dank and not some brick worthy schwagg...
The same work the same everything except at the end its DANKVILLE....not SCHWAGGCITY..
I have the utmost confidence in you..You can do it..now please stop with the growing of Oh High Oh bagseeds...trust me when i say its not in your best interest???


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#36

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:47 pm
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

respect.

its just... ok here's the best I can come up with:
after I swap the snow tires (wheel/tire) on the wife's car, I take it out for a spin around the block @ 25mph I don't head straight for the highway and hit 85 on the entrance ramp.


I have an order form printed out for H-Depot just need to get some crisp (flat) bills from the bank...

going all 5x FEM beans
-DNA
Lemon OG Kush
LA Woman
-Barney's
Cronic Thunder
Sweet Tooth
-Dinafem
White Siberian

-----

@ 17.5 hours of lights ON with black tubs: inside Box temp 75F / nutrient 67F / room 66F


Your Experience is like Water
I am like Rockwool

Last edited Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:50 pm | Scroll up

#37

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:52 pm
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

I understand what you are doing, just want to get the bugs out first. Looks like you know you can grow , you have your list made up


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#38

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:20 pm
by surfinc | 1.748 Posts | 6388 Points

greenest of mojo my friend..hope all come together fer ya...


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#39

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:04 pm
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

sigh

water temps are in serious question... *could* be 5F warmer than stated










-and-

patio temps are probably reading 5F too high




assuming this laser is reading 5F low, my nutrient is really @ 66F / 68F (lights off / on)
so I'm all good


.


Your Experience is like Water
I am like Rockwool

Last edited Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:06 pm | Scroll up

#40

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:12 pm
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

Laser temp readers give different readings for different surfaces , also different distances. I would use your thermometer readings


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#41

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:17 pm
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

right-on
I'll add some good glass (thermometer) to the next amazon order


I shot @ the rockwool just under and just above water level about 6"-8" away when I took my "nutrient" temps


Your Experience is like Water
I am like Rockwool

Last edited Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:19 pm | Scroll up

#42

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:40 pm
by MR1 | 703 Posts | 2417 Points

If you have some money to spend buy a Thermapen, I use it to verify all my thermometers. Of course cooking too.


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#43

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:04 pm
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

I'm such a stoner...



Fluke 51-2 / K-bead probe

I hate when you start to question test equipment!

just need to clean off the probe REALLY WELL before I go dipping it in my solution!


Your Experience is like Water
I am like Rockwool

Last edited Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:05 pm | Scroll up

#44

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:05 pm
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

room: 67f
5.5 hours NO light
laser: 58f
fluke: 63.4f
average temp from: wet RW, submerged RW, "open water"


I cant see this loosing more than another degree or so (short of loss of power/heat in winter)

the intake to the cabinet is 3" off a basement cinderblock wall "lasered" @ 63f , 1 foot up from a basement concrete floor @ 60f
neither of those are going to fluctuate in temperature very fast/much

from a too COLD point of view...
I'm going to let it go as is for now and pay the price if I'm wrong
reassess once the flower bucket gets setup and flower lights get turned on etc etc

(yup, and grab a fish tank heater or two next time I go to the pet store for cat food/litter... just incase)

.


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I am like Rockwool
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#45

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:49 pm
by surfinc | 1.748 Posts | 6388 Points

get the tank heater IMO..The smart ones round here have warmer temps...I just try to copy them..


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#46

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:21 am
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

Quote: The Hemp Goddess wrote in post #30
What is your ultimate plan with these? What do you plan on doing with the rockwool cubes that you just have sitting in bubbling water now?

I think that the Rubbermaid tote is crowding your plants too much. I think that and the fact that there is standing water in the tote all the time that is not shielded from the plants probably was a big contributing factor to your PM. IMO, you need to get these babies in their own containers, you need to get the nute solution out of the light, and get them spread out some. Them being all squished together is that Rubbermaid thing is probably not helping their growth in any way.

-snip-

Don't think I haven't been thinking about my homework ;)



what if:

I put these 4" RW cubes into 5" net pots and DIY'd a lid (tote style) over the top of these tubs.

- Could they stay in that throughout VEG?

- When it's time to flower, would I have a chance in *heck* of getting the roots out of that pot and into the beads in an 8 or 10" net pot?

What if I sacrifice the 5" pot? IE cut it up to ease extraction?


I'm picturing 4 total, 2 per tub, lined up similar to how they are now, maybe zig-zag.

Pros
-not loosing the square inches of "bubble-zone"
-reducing the number to 4**
-getting the nute and any open-water roots out of the light
-getting the plants UP above the tub walls
-preventing any nute splash


It's going to come down to the root extraction from the 5" net pot... is it doable?


4:20am ideas are the BEST


4** one of the lids setup single 8"+ (mother?) other as a 4 pot "clone bubbler" swap out premade lids as the weak get pulled. 4,3,2,1 ---> flower


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#47

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:35 pm
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

friend:
net pots don't restrict the plant size like soil pots do.
all the net pots do is give enough support to the plant/stem so it wont fall over, the real work in a DWC setup is done in the res.
you "could" use a 4" net pot in a 5 gallon bucket and grow a BIG tall plant but it will fall over and need lots of support.
considering you have limited height and don't plan on growing 6' tall plants, anywhere from 4-8" should work fine.

why not try with a 6" and when it comes time to move that into your flower bucket, just set it in the larger 8" "bucket lid net pot"
and fill in the extra space with clay beads?

re-friend:
hey that makes sense. I suppose I could have / should have looked that all up on my own... thanks for the guidance.
I'll add 6" net pots to my order along with the 3x 25W fish tank heaters, hand microscope and glass thermometers.

[/fight club "talk to yourself" scene]


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#48

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:01 pm
by 4u2sm0ke • Marijuana is good | 2.332 Posts | 10562 Points

how does a soil pot control the size of a plant?


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#49

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:16 pm
by Cubby | 1.243 Posts | 4716 Points

Quote: Justa420Friend wrote in post #46


It's going to come down to the root extraction from the 5" net pot... is it doable?





Why are you extracting them from the net pots?

When you transplant, you transplant the net pot as well. You don't disturb the roots, and you retrieve the net pot after harvest.


Just my 2 cents .



.


MarP Class of 2007

BHC #6 7/8

Last edited Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:16 pm | Scroll up

#50

RE: virgin run... help

in Grow Journals Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:09 pm
by Justa420Friend | 633 Posts | 2284 Points

sigh... I don't know the answers to these questions
that's why I'm here.

I ASS-u-ME you can't grow a 6' tall plant in a dixy cup or a coffee mug or a 64oz plastic cup (right?)
so in that way, the pot size restricts (and dictates) the maximum plant size.

you have seen the space I have to work with so attempting to put four 5gal buckets in here just is not an option.

I didn't understand that I could use the same (lets say 6") net pot in a small res to start off and then keep the same net pot ALL the way through the plants life just placing it into a bigger res. I thought I would have to transplant into a bigger net pot just like soil growers do.


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